Great thread!
Rosalie is certainly not one of my favourite characters and I too see her as shallow, vain and selfish. But this thread has made me realise her deeper qualities too, she just has a hard time showing them.
One thing that I think is a positive with her is that she obviously has alot of compassion for human life, as she has never tasted human blood. How many vampires can actually say that! I would have thought with her bitterness with having her life taken from her, especially by humans that she would not have any trouble
My cursor decided it was time to post my reply before I finished...whoops. But yeah basically I think that is a lovely, postive quality about Rosalie not wanting to hunt humans. She could feel great bittnerness towards humans as that is who took her life to begin with.
Prior to finding Emmett and saving him from the bear, I think Rosalie definitely would go back to the alley, lie down in the snow and freeze and bleed to death and be grateful for the chance. That is what she makes of being a vampire; she finds her fate truly dreadful. A little bit like the "hero" of Nathanial Hawthorne's short story, Young Goodman Brown, she runs through the night in Rochester, New York State (Goodman Brown ran through the primordial forest in Massachusetts to meet the Devil and sell his soul); she has no fear because, like Goodman Brown, there is no witch or warlock or monster in the night through which she runs who is nearly so terrifying or monstrous as Rosalie is herself terrifying and monstrous.Originally Posted by Shimmerskin
~ Nathanial Hawthorne. I can guess what Jacob Black would have to say about the implied slur on the Massachusetts native American tribes built into this passage; even so, Hawthorne was the first really great writer produced by the United States of America.And, maddened with despair, so that he laughed loud and long, did Goodman Brown grasp his staff and set forth again, at such a rate that he seemed to fly along the forest path rather than to walk or run. The road grew wilder and drearier and more faintly traced, and vanished at length, leaving him in the heart of the dark wilderness, still rushing onward with the instinct that guides mortal man to evil. The whole forest was peopled with frightful sounds--the creaking of the trees, the howling of wild beasts, and the yell of Indians; while sometimes the wind tolled like a distant church bell, and sometimes gave a broad roar around the traveller, as if all Nature were laughing him to scorn. But he was himself the chief horror of the scene, and shrank not from its other horrors.
"Ha! ha! ha!" roared Goodman Brown when the wind laughed at him.
"Let us hear which will laugh loudest. Think not to frighten me with your deviltry. Come witch, come wizard, come Indian powwow, come devil himself, and here comes Goodman Brown. You may as well fear him as he fear you."
In truth, all through the haunted forest there could be nothing more frightful than the figure of Goodman Brown. On he flew among the black pines, brandishing his staff with frenzied gestures, now giving vent to an inspiration of horrid blasphemy, and now shouting forth such laughter as set all the echoes of the forest laughing like demons around him. The fiend in his own shape is less hideous than when he rages in the breast of man.
I think Rosalie sees the monster in herself much as Edward does. Also, much like Edward, she loved a human and chose to make that human hers. Unlike Edward, she instantly followed through the logic of her choice and had Carlisle change Emmett; Emmett was dying and Rosalie had not the luxury of dithering as Edward dithers. In Breaking Dawn, when Bella was clearly dying after the birth of Renesmee, Edward knew what he had to do and he did it. But he and Rosalie have similar views on the ethics of such a love; in fact there is a lot of convergence between Edward and Rosalie on the whole philosophical conundrum of being a vampire with a soul. Neither of them would have chosen the life; they are both dealing with it as well as they can and they are both resolutely trying with all their might to not be monsters.
Part of Rosalie's strategy, again rather like Edward, is to love her family and bond with them. I see her love for Emmett as the first step she took down this road, but then again, she quailed with terror during transformation because Carlisle talked seriously about letting her go her own way. Even then, she could not be alone; she must have a family, even if the only one available is one containing Edward Cullen. She resented being saved in the alley, when she had already lost every last thing she lived for, lost even her illusions. By being raped she has lost dignity and self-worth; she feels unspeakably humiliated and degraded. Why would she want to live now? I suspect that she felt a first glimmer of hope when Esme spoke for her, and a little more when Edward expressed his fierce loathing of Royce King; these people know what she has suffered and accept her, are on her side, even the scornful Edward roots for her over this. To be accepted, to have compassion rather than rejection and contempt, these things are everything to Rosalie at that worst moment of all. No matter how much she clashes with Edward and others in her family, Rosalie is loyal to the core and she would die for these people, who found her so degraded and so soiled, and took her in.
So:
- Rosalie loves her family and is utterly loyal to them.
- Rosalie is as determined to live a humane life in defiance of her vampire nature as Edward. Young Goodman Brown sold his soul to the Devil. Rosalie did not.
- Rosalie has the courage to endure a lot she finds just as hard to bear as Edward finds it. She lacks the genteel stoicism of Edward, is vocal in her dislike of the circumstances of her life, yet still she bears it and looks for the good in it, looks for the consolations.
But I don't think the bonding happened all at once. I do think it took time and the sharing of experiences. I still harbour that strong suspicion that Edward helped her to find all Royce's gang and was an accessory to her campaign of revenge; I am quite sure he would approve in principle of her decision to be revenged on them. Carlisle would allow him to help purely to keep Rosalie out of trouble and prevent others not in Royce's gang from falling victim to Rosalie as she stampedes through the night forest of Rochester, New York State, like Young Goodman Brown.
Last edited by scoundrel; 10-22-2011 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Clarify the relevance of what I am saying
Don't we have the qualitys of our flaws? Rosalie is stubborn.That also mean when she commit herself to protect Bella's choice, she do it all the way.She begin to accept Bella after the trip in Italy.She recognize her bravery, is glad she did not loose her brother and finally see that they are truly in love and begin to see Bella as a sister.On the wedding day,while allowing Alice to enjoy her vicarious fun she come and ask to help for the finishing thouch, showing her approbation and acceptance to Bella.When she receive Bella's phone call she agree immediately to help. After that she almost never leave her.She have 2 weeks to watch her fighting for her baby and deteriorating rapidly doing so.I think she then have plenty of time to reevaluate her ow n life,resentment and anger and compare it to Bella's life.Those were bending time.She was convince she will survive and willing to do anything for that.She show great self control by preparing blood's cups and staying with Bella all the time.She did not feed then and only loose her control performing caesarian.She did let Alice and Jacob win the fight and after that said Edward: '' I will take care of her till Bella...''She is now accepting Bella as a mother and her role as an aunt and a full sister.The Ice Queen melted
I struggled with Rosalie since the beginning of the saga. I don't like her. She's too superficial, negative & angry. I think it's sad to waste so much time (even as an immortal) with regrets & anger. She shows so little appreciation for all of the positives in her life. Rosalie does not make the best out of her lot in life.
I enjoyed the insights in this thread. I never thought of any of the comparisons drawn between Edward & Rosalie's perceptions of being vampires. It seems that they would both have chosen death over their fate. However, Edward seems to change his view once he finds Bella & love that gives him true happiness, even in his immortal life.
As a vampire, Rosalie has a loving family that sees her as more than just a pretty face. They value & support her. Rosalie is not always fun to live with. She is high-maintenance & has the least warmth of the cold-ones. She can be very difficult & almost childlike in her selfishness. However, the Cullens love & accept her as she is & would never even consider selling her to the highest bidder (like her human family did with Royce).
I agree with & have always seen/acknowledged Rosalie's loyalty to her vampire family. She'd die for them. However, she is truly not supportive of Edward during a really tough time in his life. In MS, she never even attempted to see things from Edward's POV. All she saw was his selfishness (ironic, isn't it?) & her own petty jealousy.
However, I want to add honesty (to others) to Rosalie's list of positive qualities. She goes out of her way to be surprisingly open with Bella when she shares her story. Rosalie even admits that she was jealous of the attraction that Edward had for Bella. She did not have to confess this tidbit that she was ashamed of.
This being said, Rosalie is not very honest with herself. She considered herself as having a perfect life as a human? Talk about delusional! Rosalie was pretty much being sold off to a rich & attractive womanizing, violent SADIST by her own terribly superficial & arrogant parents.
Look at how Rosalie's parents viewed poor people. These were not admirable parents who instilled good family values. Rosalie was taught that her greatest human qualities were her wealth/position in society & her beauty – basically, her marketability. These were not good life lessons.
Rosalie was about to enter into an almost arranged marriage with a virtual stranger. She never seems to acknowledge the cold hard facts about her “perfect” human life. It's true that she harbored deep & strong dreams for her future. She wanted 1) a loving marriage & 2) to have babies.
As an immortal, Rosalie did find a very loving partner. Emmett, by her own admission, is better than she could ever have asked for. She acknowledges this fact & truly does love & appreciate him. And Emmett actually loves & appreciates her (in my eyes, he gets the short end of this stick!).
Rosalie has to abandon her dreams of having a baby after she becomes a vampire. She loses all hope for that dream. However, THAT dream ended on the street when she was assaulted & left for dead. Either way, as a dead human or an infertile vampire, motherhood was not in her cards.
Luckily, Rosalie does get to realize her maternal side, thanks to Bella & Edward, when Renesmee enters her life. Actually, even before the birth, Rosalie acts somewhat motherly toward Bella during the pregnancy & even before that time.
Rosalie both selfishly & selflessly protects Bella throughout the pregnancy by Bella's request. It is difficult to discern between her own desires to have a baby & her desire to want to help Bella. But Rosalie does try to advocate for Bella repeatedly in the saga.
In NM & Eclipse, Rosalie tries to save Bella from becoming a vampire. She seems to be very genuine in her desire to help Bella avoid making a mistake which Bella could regret for eternity. Rosalie's intentions seem pure & truly “good” in my eyes.
Rosalie's “goodness” seems to surpass her parents' values at some levels. The fact that she does want to protect others in her family (while her parents were so willing to throw her to the wolves, so to speak). Rosalie truly values human lives enough to never even taste human blood. We all know how strong the desire for human blood is, especially in newborns.
Rosalie's human parents do not seem to view all human as being equal or as being as worthy as they are, based on their wealth/social standing. Yet Rosalie does, at least enough to exert the self-control needed to refrain from feeding on even the dregs of society.
Human Rosalie even befriends a lady that was beneath her own station in life. She goes further than that by being jealous of her friend's loving husband & beautiful child. She sees the beauty in that life, although she was raised to feel above that.
As for Rosalie's revenge on her murderers: I am extremely against revenge. On principle, I believe that revenge makes you lower than the ones you avenge. However, these men were sadistic & violent predators - murderers. Rosalie was doing a public service for other women by stopping them from preying upon other victims. I felt the same about when Edward was feeding on these types of “humans” (I use the term loosely).
Throughout the saga, Rosalie shows respect for Carlisle. She listens to him when he asks something of her. She may do it with a sigh or a glare, but she honors his wishes. Rosalie seems to view Carlisle as her father figure and seems to hold no grudge toward him for his choice to “save” her with immortality.
Rosalie also shows deep & genuine concern for Edward when she realizes that she might have caused his death in NM. She feels terribly guilty for hurting & potentially ending his life. Rosalie also shows genuine appreciation & acknowledges the gravity of Bella's choice to risk her life to save Edward after Rosalie's mistake. She does not gloss over this fact. It seems to change her feelings toward Bella, at least a bit.
Besides all of this, Rosalie did bring humor into the saga. The banter between Jacob & Rosalie was hilarious. I especially enjoyed when Rosalie served Jacob in her make-shift dog-bowl. When she says, “You... got... food... in... my... hair.” I literally laughed until I cried. This gives Rosalie the single biggest laugh in the saga (in my humble opinion).
So, Rosalie is intelligent, has great mechanical abilities & is very strong-willed. She is protective of those she loves, loyal, surpasses what she is taught by her human parents, knows right from wrong & acts accordingly. She is also a true 'vegetarian', is appreciative of Emmett & her vampire family, beautiful, rich as well as having all of the typical vampire qualities (strength, speed, heightened senses...). We can also add good penmanship & artistic ability from the dog-bowl incident to her positive attributes.
The Jacob Black section of Breaking Dawn is the story of Rosalie Hale's finest hour, told with black humour, controlled rage and venom, and yet with ungrudging respect, in the voice of Rosalie's personal enemy. What makes it so fine is the superbly observed blend of altruism and ruthless selfishness which is the essence of Rosalie Hale. Rosalie is indeed "all about the babies", yet there is no denying that she alleviates Bella's suffering in every way she can and that (against interest) she works hard to maximise Bella's chances of survival. She is very cold, but not quite pitiless...not quite. Neither is she unethical; she plays absolutely fair with Bella every step of the way.Don't we have the qualities of our flaws? Rosalie is stubborn.That also mean when she commit herself to protect Bella's choice, she do it all the way.She begin to accept Bella after the trip in Italy.She recognize her bravery, is glad she did not loose her brother and finally see that they are truly in love and begin to see Bella as a sister.On the wedding day,while allowing Alice to enjoy her vicarious fun she come and ask to help for the finishing touch, showing her approbation and acceptance to Bella.When she received Bella's phone call she agreed immediately to help. After that she almost never left her.She had 2 weeks to watch her fighting for her baby and deteriorating rapidly doing so. I think she then had plenty of time to reevaluate her own life,resentment and anger and compare it to Bella's life. Those were bending times. She was convinced she will survive and willing to do anything for that. She showed great self control by preparing blood's cups and staying with Bella all the time.She did not feed then and only loose her control performing caesarian.She did let Alice and Jacob win the fight and after that said Edward: '' I will take care of her till Bella...''She is now accepting Bella as a mother and her role as an aunt and a full sister.The Ice Queen melted
I found the honesty of Jacob Black's narrative really engaging, the way in which he never fails to give the devil her due. Jacob sincerely admires the sheer brutal selfishness of Rosalie as he sees it; there isn't any falsehood in Rosalie and in spite of himself, Jacob likes her attitude, especially that she loathes him and says so; Jacob thinks that is rather cool and in thinking so, shows that he himself is also rather cool. Ultimately. I felt that Jacob Black didn't really hate Rosalie, he only thought he did when he perceived her as the reason why Bella was going to die, the obstacle to the enforced abortion which he (and Edward) were convinced must happen in order to prevent Bella's death. It's true that these two really really don't like each other; but they have always unwilling mutual respect. Rosalie, for her part clearly isn't put out by Jacob's hostility, but rather takes grim pleasure in shooting back. In fact, their little feud is meat and drink to Rosalie; in the dog bowl episode she shows how imaginatively and creatively she can scratch and bite. As for the hair, Jacob hasn't heard of the last of that yet, I would wager.
Oh, I love it! It would be something to watch for sure. It remind me of the olds storys of Don Camillo by Giovannino Guareschi, and the movies with Fernandel and Gino Cervi.Those characters were always fighting and plotting against each other.They were the best enemies and best friends when the little village was in danger or when one of the other was in trouble.They were quite inventive in there fights and revenges.I am still laughing went I have a chance to watch again.Do you know these storys? they age pretty well.
I have not read the stories; I did see a 12 part serialisation made by the BBC in 1981 (thirty years ago, how the time passes) in which Brian Blessed played the mayor and Mario Adorf played Don Camillo. Cyril Cusack played the voice of God in Don Camillo's head. It was a series of observant and enjoyable ironic stories, and I remember that the priest and the Communist mayor had each a professional duty to hate one another but actually (off the record) got on quite a bit better than either Stalin or the Pope would have liked.
I was not aware of the BBC version but those two are naturals enemies and fight like dogs.Nevertheless,they won't really hurt each other.Once ,Peppone made his gang stole the chickens Camillo was feeding.Of course,the priest found the guiltys at the table festoying and he knew that the mayor knew what was going in his head.This is the kind of revenge I could see Rosalie and Jacob do to each other
I just had a flash of Rosalie shaving Jacob's fur and transforming him in a giant poodleDo you think she could succeed if he was sound asleep
I think Edward would read the intention in Rosalie's mind and would protect Jacob from this indignity. Likewise Alice would probably be sat close by to relieve her headaches and she at least rather likes Jacob, at least after he turns up in Breaking Dawn; she'd probably threaten to impose an avant garde hairdo on Rosalie's precious hair in the name of fashion.I just had a flash of Rosalie shaving Jacob's fur and transforming him in a giant poodle
The truth is, I don't see Rosalie doing this by stealth. She always stabs from in front, partly because she is thoroughly honest, and partly because she gets more pleasure that way.
I haven't finished reading through the entire thread yet, so forgive me if I am restating what has already been said, but here is my take....
Emmett seems to be a thrillseeker and he seems to get off on drama. Rosalie seems like a high maintenance type that brings a lot of drama to the table. I think Emmett loves her because she's beautiful and because life with her is not boring. She's also very loyal and protective of her family. She's also respectful of Carlisle and Esme. She may huff and puff and pout a bit, but she also listens....especially to them. She is respectful of human life. I think that I remember her saying that she never tasted human blood and that she even refused to feed on the men that assaulted her while she was seeking revenge. She does it begrudgingly, but she does admit her mistakes and tries to make amends for them. She's not my favorite character from the series but I do think she has some redeeming qualities.
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